Employee Survival Guide®
The Employee Survival Guide® is an employment law podcast only for employees about everything related to work and your career. We will share with you all the employment law information your employer and Human Resources does not want you to know about working and guide you through various work and employment law issues. This is an employee podcast.
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Employee Survival Guide®
Hostile Work Environments: The Legal Line Between Difficult and Discriminatory
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Have you ever felt trapped in a hostile work environment, where your rights are challenged and your voice is silenced? You're not alone, and in this eye-opening episode of Employee Survival Guide®, Mark Carey and his co-host tackle the complexities of workplace harassment, hostile work environments and discrimination head-on. They dive deep into the legal landscape, exploring landmark Supreme Court cases like Bostock v. Clayton County and Harris v. Forklift Systems, which have reshaped our understanding of employee rights and protections against discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity.
As the conversation unfolds, the hosts emphasize the undeniable responsibility of employers to cultivate a safe and inclusive workplace culture. They outline the essential components of effective anti-harassment policies and the critical nature of robust reporting mechanisms. If you've ever faced retaliation or discrimination, this episode is packed with practical advice tailored for you. Learn the importance of documentation and how to navigate your rights under both federal and state employment law.
But that’s not all! They also discuss the evolving nature of work, especially in the context of remote work challenges and the rise of diversity initiatives. How do these factors impact workplace dynamics and employee empowerment? The answers might surprise you! With insights into navigating employment contracts, understanding workplace policies, and securing reasonable accommodations, this episode serves as your ultimate resource for surviving and thriving in the modern work environment.
Whether you're dealing with workplace bullies, facing discrimination, or simply seeking career development tips, this episode of Employee Survival Guide® is your go-to guide for overcoming employment law issues including hostile work environments. Tune in to learn how to advocate for yourself, negotiate your severance package, and understand your rights in the face of workplace discrimination. Don’t let hostile work environments dictate your career path—empower yourself with the knowledge to navigate these challenges effectively!
Join us as we equip you with the job survival skills you need to not only endure but excel in your career. This is more than just a podcast; it’s your essential guide to understanding employment law, fighting for your rights, and cultivating a fulfilling work life. Listen now and take the first step toward transforming your workplace experience!
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We would really appreciate if you could leave a review of this podcast on your favorite podcast player such as Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Leaving a review will help other employees find the Employee Survival Guide.
For more information, please contact our employment attorneys at Carey & Associates, P.C. at 203-255-4150, www.capclaw.com.
Disclaimer: For educational use only, not intended to be legal advice.
Okay, so today we're going deep on something I think pretty much anyone who's ever had a job can relate to hostile work environments.
Speaker 2Yeah, for sure. It's something that, unfortunately, a lot of people have experienced at some point.
Speaker 1Absolutely and you know it's not always clear cut what actually crosses that line legally right, exactly. Luckily, you guys have sent in some really interesting stuff for us to dig into Some AI research that breaks down some big legal cases and concepts, some AI research that breaks down some big legal cases and concepts. Plus, we've got actual excerpts from Supreme Court rulings like Bostock v Clayton County and On Kale v Sundan or offshore services.
Speaker 2Yeah, those are some big ones.
Speaker 1They are. So our goal today is to make sense of all this dense legal stuff and really give you a solid grasp on what actually defines a hostile work environment under the law.
Legal Foundations: Title VII and Beyond
Speaker 2Totally, because it goes way beyond just personality clashes or the occasional bad day at the office. Right, there's this whole legal framework built up over decades through laws and core positions, and we want to pull out the most important parts so you can really get the core principles.
Speaker 1OK, so let's start with the foundation. The AI research we got points out that this whole idea of a hostile work environment as a legal concept really comes from federal laws, and the big one is Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Speaker 2Right and Title VIII. When it first came out, you know, it basically prohibited discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin.
Speaker 1The basics.
Speaker 2Yeah, but the courts have been interpreting it for years. You know, through all these different cases and that's really how they've clarified you know exactly how discrimination can show up in the workplace and that includes, you know, creating a hostile or abusive environment for people.
Speaker 1And it's important to remember that those original categories aren't the only ones that are protected now, right.
Speaker 2Oh, definitely not.
Speaker 1The AI research even points out that hostile work environment claims can involve discrimination based on age and disability.
Speaker 2For sure.
Speaker 1And then we've got, you know, Bostock v Clayton County, which I feel like was a really big turning point.
Speaker 2Yeah, bostock was huge. I mean, what's so interesting about it is how it really expanded. How we think about sex-based discrimination Right, like the case itself focused on firing someone from their job based on discrimination. But the Supreme Court went further than that Right. They said discriminating against someone because of their sexual orientation or gender identity is basically like discriminating against them based on sex. It's like you can't separate those things.
Speaker 1Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2Right and that has huge implications for hostile work environment cases, because now if someone is being harassed because they're gay or transgender, it's clear that could be seen as illegal discrimination.
Speaker 1Creating that hostile environment.
Speaker 2Exactly so. You know, the law's understanding of this stuff keeps evolving.
Speaker 1OK. So one of the big takeaways from all this foundational stuff is that it really puts a lot of responsibility on employers.
Speaker 2Absolutely.
Speaker 1Like our AI sources are really clear that they need to have these clear policies against harassment and then ways for employees to report problems.
Speaker 2Yeah, they can't just like have a suggestion box and call it a day.
Speaker 1Right.
Key Supreme Court Cases Explained
Speaker 2You know this is crucial stuff and as we get into the Supreme Court cases you'll see that having these policies can actually make a difference in whether an employer is held responsible in court.
Speaker 1OK, perfect segue, because that's exactly what I want to talk about next these big Supreme Court cases.
Speaker 2Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1The AI research lays out some of the most important decisions kind of chronologically. So let's start with Meredith Savings Bank v Vinson back in 1986. This one feels like a real cornerstone.
Speaker 2It really is. Vinson kind of revolutionized things, because it was the first time the Supreme Court said straight up that sexual harassment creating a hostile work environment is a form of sex discrimination under Title VII. Oh wow, and before this, you know, people thought sexual harassment only really mattered legally if it had a direct economic impact.
Speaker 1Like you lose your job. Exactly Because you wouldn't, you know, sleep with your boss.
Speaker 2Right, or you know you get demoted or something. But Vinson said, even if there's no financial harm, if the harassment makes the workplace hostile and abusive, that's illegal discrimination too.
Speaker 1So it shifted the focus to like how it affects you as an employee, like your ability to actually do your job in this environment.
Speaker 2Right, it's not just about the money. It's about being able to function in a safe and respectful workplace.
Speaker 1OK, so it doesn't have to be like if you do this, I'll give you a promotion, kind of thing.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1Just making people feel really uncomfortable and unsafe, that can be enough.
Speaker 2Exactly.
Speaker 1OK, cool. So next up we've got Harris v Forklift Systems Inc. In 1993, and this one seems to really clarify what makes a workplace hoster.
Speaker 2Yeah, Harris is a big one because it dealt with how bad does the harassment have to be to actually be illegal?
Speaker 1Right, Like where's the line?
Speaker 2Exactly, and the court basically said you don't have to prove that you've been psychologically damaged or anything.
Speaker 1Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2What matters is whether the environment is objectively abusive.
Speaker 1Meaning.
Speaker 2Meaning like would a reasonable person in that situation find it hostile?
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2And subjectively abusive, meaning you, the person who's experiencing it, also feel that way, so it's like a two-part test.
Speaker 1Objective and subjective. That's a really helpful way to think about it. Right, it's not just about someone being overly sensitive, but it also says, hey, even if someone seems tough on the outside, they still deserve a workplace that's not abusive.
Speaker 2Absolutely. Everyone deserves to feel safe and respected at work.
Speaker 1Okay, so moving on, we've got two cases that were decided at the same time in 1998, Farragher v City of Boca Raton and Burlington Industries Ing v Eller.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, those are both really important.
Speaker 1And they both deal with when an employer can be held responsible for harassment by a supervisor.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1So why two separate cases at the same time?
Speaker 2Well, it's because the court wanted to really clarify the rules around employer liability.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2You know when are they on the hook for the actions of their supervisors and the main takeaway is that they can be held responsible even if the employee doesn't like lose their job or get demoted.
Speaker 1So even if there's no direct like negative action taken against them, Exactly Just creating that hostile environment is enough.
Speaker 2But and this is a big but these cases also gave employers a way to defend themselves.
Speaker 1OK, so like a loophole.
Speaker 2Well, not a loophole, exactly More like an affirmative defense.
Speaker 1OK, tell me more about that.
Speaker 2So an employer can say hey, we're not liable because we took steps to prevent harassment and we have a system for reporting it.
Speaker 1So like they have to show they have clear policies in place and that they actually take complaints seriously, Right, and they also have to show that the employee didn't use those systems to report the harassment. Oh, so it puts some responsibility on the employee too.
Speaker 2Exactly, it's like a two-way street the employer has to set up the safety net and the employee has to actually use it.
Speaker 1Okay, that makes sense. It encourages both sides to be proactive.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1So then also in 1998, we have another really important case Oncale v Sundowner Offshore Services Inc.
Speaker 2Ah Oncale.
Speaker 1And the excerpt you sent really focused on this one. So tell me, why is this one so significant?
Speaker 2Well, OnKale dealt with a pretty fundamental question. Can someone be harassed by someone of the same sex and still have a claim under Title VII?
Speaker 1Like same-sex harassment.
Speaker 2Exactly and the Supreme Court said yes, they were very clear about that. Interesting. The law says you can't discriminate because of dot sex and the court basically said that harassment can be based on sex even if the harasser and the victim are the same gender.
Speaker 1So it doesn't matter if there's like a sexual attraction thing going on.
Speaker 2Right. It's about whether the harassment happened because of the victim's sex and whether it could get at a hostile environment. Got it, and the excerpt we have really emphasizes that the key is whether one sex is being treated worse than the other.
Speaker 1OK, that's a really important clarification. It basically says that gender based hostility, even if it's not like sexual in nature, can still be illegal.
Speaker 2Exactly.
Speaker 1OK, moving right along, Our AI research talks about National Railroad Passenger Corporation v Morgan from 2002. And this one deals with the timeline for bringing these hostile work environment claims, which sounds kind of technical but also really important.
Speaker 2Oh, it is super important because, you know, harassment often happens over a period of time, right, it's not just one single incident.
Speaker 1Right, like a pattern of behavior.
Speaker 2Exactly so. Morgan dealt with the question of like when can an employee actually file a lawsuit based on all this stuff that's been going on, and the court came up with this thing called the continuing violation doctrine.
Speaker 1Okay, and what does that mean in plain English?
Speaker 2Basically it means that as long as at least one of the incidents that contributed to the hostile work environment happened within a certain time period, the whole period of harassment can be considered.
Speaker 1Oh, that's interesting. So even if some of the stuff happened a long time ago, if it was part of this ongoing pattern, it can still be relevant.
Speaker 2Exactly, and that's really important, because it stops employers from saying, oh, that happened too long ago, you can't sue us for that.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2If it was all part of the same hostile environment, it could still be part of the case.
Speaker 1OK, that makes sense. And then next Pennsylvania State Police v Suitors in 2004. Oh yeah, suitors is an interesting one. This one introduces the idea of constructive discharge. So tell me, what is that?
Speaker 2exactly. The constructive discharge is basically when an employer makes the working condition so bad that a reasonable person would feel like they had to quit.
Speaker 1So they're not technically fired, but they're basically forced out.
Speaker 2Exactly and Suitors said that if an employee quits because of really bad harassment, they can actually claim constructive discharge and sue the employer.
Speaker 1Wow. So the employer can't just make someone's life a living hell and then say, oh well, they quit, we didn't fire them.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1They can still be held responsible.
Speaker 2Exactly.
Speaker 1OK. And then we have Vanspeed Ball State University in 2013, which clarifies who's actually considered a supervisor when it comes to employer liability Right. Why was that distinction so important?
Speaker 2Well, because there's a big legal difference between a supervisor and a coworker.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2When it comes to a supervisor, the employer is pretty much automatically responsible for their actions.
Speaker 1But not for a coworker.
Speaker 2Well, it depends. If it's a coworker, the employer is usually only liable if they knew about the harassment and didn't do anything to stop it.
Speaker 1Oh OK.
Speaker 2So Vance really narrowed down the definition of a supervisor. They said it has to be someone who has the power to hire, fire, promote, demote things like that.
Speaker 1So someone with real authority over you.
Speaker 2Exactly.
Speaker 1OK, that makes sense. Now our AI research also mentions a few other important cases, like EEOCV, Mitsubishi Motor Manufacturing of America, which was one of the biggest sexual harassment class action lawsuits ever.
Speaker 2Oh, yeah, that one was huge.
Speaker 1Like a massive settler.
Speaker 2I think it was over 30 million dollars.
Speaker 1Yeah, something like that. It really shows how much not dealing with these issues can cost a company.
Speaker 2For sure, both financially and in terms of their reputation.
Speaker 1Absolutely. Then there's Nichols v Azteca Restaurant Enterprises Inc. Which said that gender based harassment isn't just about sexual harassment.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's an important one.
Speaker 1It can be about not fitting into gender stereotypes too.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1Like in that case, this guy was being harassed for not being manly enough.
Speaker 2Exactly and the court said that's still illegal discrimination.
Speaker 1Wow, OK. And then there's Reeves v C Worldwide Inc. Which said that even general offensive behavior can create a hostile work environment.
Speaker 2Right.
Employer Liability and Protected Classes
Speaker 1It doesn't have to be targeted at a specific person.
Speaker 2Exactly. If it's just like a generally toxic and offensive atmosphere, that can be enough.
Speaker 1OK. So even if the jokes aren't directed at you, but they're still like racist or sexist, that can be a problem.
Speaker 2Totally.
Speaker 1OK, cool, directed at you, but they're still like racist or sexist. That can be a problem. Okay, cool. And then our AI research even mentions one of the earliest cases Henson v City of Dundee, which was one of the first to say that a hostile work environment created by sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination.
Speaker 2Yeah, Henson was a groundbreaking case. It really set the stage for all the cases that came after.
Speaker 1So it's really interesting to see how this whole area of law has developed over time.
Speaker 2For sure.
Speaker 1Okay, so we've covered a lot of ground with these cases. Now let's zoom in on some of the key legal concepts that keep popping up, as highlighted in our AI research.
Speaker 2Sounds good.
Speaker 1The first one is this severe or pervasive harassment standard that we touched on earlier with the Harris case.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1So tell me more about what that actually means in practice.
Speaker 2Well, the severe or pervasive standard is basically the heart of hostile work environment law.
Speaker 1OK.
Speaker 2When a court is looking at a case, they consider everything.
Speaker 1Like what.
Speaker 2Like how often the behavior happened, how bad it was, whether it was physical or just verbal, and whether it stopped the employee from doing their job.
Speaker 1So it's not just about one comment or one incident.
Speaker 2Right, usually has to be a pattern of behavior. Ok, like one mean comment might be rude, but a constant stream of insults is much more likely to be seen as creating a hostile environment.
Speaker 1So like one off color joke probably isn't enough, but being subjected to racist jokes all the time definitely could be Exactly. Ok cool. The next concept is the reasonable person standard. Oh yeah, that's a big one.
Speaker 2So when the court talks about a reasonable person.
Speaker 1who are they talking about exactly? Well, the reasonable person standard, oh yeah, that's a big one. So when the court talks about a reasonable person, who are they talking about exactly?
Speaker 2Well, the reasonable person standard is basically a way to be objective. It's not just about how the person bringing the lawsuit felt. The court tries to imagine how a typical reasonable person would react in that situation.
Speaker 1So it's not just about being overly sensitive.
Speaker 2Right, it has to be something that a normal person would find offensive or abusive. But here's an important point the reasonable person isn't always totally neutral.
Speaker 1OK, what do you mean?
Speaker 2The court can also take into account the perspective of someone who shares the plaintiff's protected characteristic.
Speaker 1Oh, that's interesting. So, like in a racial harassment case, they might think about how a reasonable person of that same race would feel.
Speaker 2Exactly Because what might seem like a harmless joke to one person could be really hurtful to someone who's experienced discrimination.
Speaker 1That makes a lot of sense. Ok, so we talked about employer liability with the Farragher and Eller of cases, but the AI research really emphasizes this again. What's the main takeaway here?
Speaker 2The big thing to remember is that employers can be held responsible for hostile work environments created by their supervisors and their co-workers.
Speaker 1By both.
Speaker 2Yeah, With supervisors it's more straightforward, especially if the supervisor took some kind of action against the employee, like demoting them.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2But even with co-work, though, the employer has a responsibility. If they knew, or should have known, about the harassment and they didn't do anything, they could be in trouble.
Speaker 1So that's why it's so important for employers to have clear reporting systems and to take all complaints seriously.
Speaker 2Exactly. They can't just ignore it and hope it goes away.
Speaker 1OK, and finally, let's revisit those protected characteristics. We listed them at the beginning, but now that we've talked about all these cases, let's make sure we're all clear on who is actually protected under these laws.
Speaker 2So the main categories are race, sex, religion, national origin, age and disability. Okay, and remember, because of Bostock, sex now includes sexual orientation and gender identity.
Speaker 1Right, right. So basically, if the harassment is based on one of these things, it's illegal.
Speaker 2Exactly.
Speaker 1But if it's based on something else, even if it's really mean, it might not be a hostile work environment legally speaking.
Speaker 2Right, but it's important to note that some states have laws that offer more protection than federal law.
Speaker 1Oh, that's a good point. So it's always worth checking what the laws are in your state.
Speaker 2For sure.
Employee Options and Documentation
Speaker 1Okay, now let's switch gears and think about this from the employee's perspective.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1So let's say someone thinks they're in a hostile work environment, what should they do? Our AI research has some good tips.
Speaker 2Yeah, work environment what should they do? Our AI research has some good tips. Yeah, the first thing is documentation.
Speaker 1Write everything down.
Speaker 2As much as you can Dates times, what happened, who was there?
Speaker 1Like keep a journal.
Speaker 2Pretty much, because if you ever need to file a complaint, having all those details can be really helpful Right, because it's hard to remember everything after the fact Exactly. And then the next big thing is reporting.
Speaker 1Tell someone.
Speaker 2Yeah, follow your company's procedures for reporting harassment. Usually that means going to your supervisor or HR.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2I know it can be scary, but it's important to give your employer a chance to fix the problem.
Speaker 1Right. What if the employer doesn't do anything, though? Or what if the employee doesn't feel safe reporting it internally?
Speaker 2Well, in that case they can go to the EEOC, the what the EEOC? It stands for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. It's the federal agency that enforces all these anti-discrimination laws.
Speaker 1Oh, okay.
Speaker 2So an employee can file a complaint with them directly.
Speaker 1Interesting, and our research mentions that there are other resources too, right.
Speaker 2Yeah, a lot of states have their own agencies that handle discrimination cases.
Speaker 1So it's worth checking out what's available in your area.
Speaker 2Right, and there are also legal aid organizations that can help people who have been harassed, area Right and there are also legal aid organizations that can help people who have been harassed.
Speaker 1So there are options, but the main thing is document everything and report it through the proper channels.
Speaker 2Exactly those are the most important first steps.
Nuanced Contexts and Modern Challenges
Speaker 1Okay, now let's get into some of the more nuanced stuff.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1Our AI research points out that context is really important in these cases.
Speaker 2Yeah, context is everything. What might be okay in one workplace could be totally unacceptable in another.
Speaker 1Oh, interesting. So it depends on the culture of the company.
Speaker 2Exactly, and the court will also look at whether there's a history of discrimination at the company.
Speaker 1So it's not just about the specific incident, it's about the whole environment.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1And another nuance is the power dynamics involved.
Speaker 2Absolutely.
Speaker 1Like we were saying before, harassment from a supervisor is taken more seriously than harassment from a coworker.
Speaker 2Because a supervisor has power over you. They can affect your job.
Speaker 1Right, so their actions are more threatening.
Speaker 2Exactly, and we talked about quid pro quo harassment before. Can we just clarify the difference between that and a hostile work environment?
Speaker 1Yeah, good point. So quid pro quo is basically when someone in a position of power demands sexual favors in exchange for something job related.
Speaker 2Right, like a promotion or a raise.
Speaker 1OK, but a hostile work environment is more about the overall atmosphere.
Speaker 2Exactly. It's about whether the environment is so offensive or abusive that it makes it hard for someone to do their job.
Speaker 1OK, so one is more transactional and the other is about the overall climate.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1What about harassment from people who aren't actually employees at the company?
Speaker 2Oh yeah, Like customers or clients.
Speaker 1Yeah, the AI research calls that third party harassment.
Speaker 2Right, and employers can actually be held responsible for that too.
Speaker 1Really.
Speaker 2Yeah, if they know about it and they don't do anything to stop it.
Speaker 1So they have a responsibility to protect their employees from harassment, even from outsiders.
Speaker 2Exactly. They can't say oh well, it wasn't our employee, so it's not our problem.
Speaker 1OK, cool. So now all this talk about proving a hostile work environment makes me wonder how do you actually prove that, Especially since it can be so subjective?
Speaker 2Yeah, it's definitely tricky and that's one of the biggest challenges with these cases.
Speaker 1Like what.
Speaker 2Well, you have to balance protecting people from real harassment with preventing lawsuits that are based on nothing Right. That's where the severe or pervasive standard and the reasonable person standard come in.
Speaker 1Okay, and then there's the issue of how severe the harassment is versus how often it happens.
Speaker 2Right Like one really bad incident might be enough, even if it only happened once. But a bunch of smaller incidents can also add up to a hostile environment if they happen all the time.
Speaker 1Oh, that's interesting. So it's not just about the severity, it's about the frequency too.
Speaker 2Exactly. And then there's the problem of retaliation.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, that's when the employer punishes the employee for reporting the harassment right.
Speaker 2Right and sadly that happens a lot and that can make the whole situation even worse.
Speaker 1Absolutely. And finally, the AI research mentions some new challenges like online harassment and intersectionality, like online harassment and intersectionality.
Speaker 2Yeah, those are big ones.
Speaker 1So how are those changing the way we think about hostile work environments?
Speaker 2Well. With more people working remotely online, harassment is becoming a bigger problem.
Speaker 1Right, because it's all happening online.
Speaker 2Exactly, and the courts are still figuring out how to apply the law to those situations. Okay and what about intersectionality? So intersectionality is about recognizing that people can experience discrimination based on multiple things at once.
Speaker 1Like being a woman and being black.
Speaker 2Exactly, and the courts are starting to pay more attention to that because it's important to see the whole picture.
Speaker 1Right, because someone might be experiencing sexism and racism at the same time.
Speaker 2Exactly, and that can make the harassment even worse.
Speaker 1OK, so it seems like this is an area of law that's constantly changing and evolving.
Speaker 2Totally. As the workplace changes, the law has to change too.
Final Thoughts and Future Considerations
Speaker 1Okay, so for all you learners out there, let's recap. What we've learned today Sounds good. First of all, a hostile work environment isn't just about someone being mean to you at work.
Speaker 2Right, it has to be more than that.
Speaker 1It has to be a pattern of behavior that's discriminatory, based on your race, sex, religion or other protected characteristics.
Speaker 2And it has to be severe or pervasive enough to create a truly hostile environment.
Speaker 1Right and we talked about all those landmark Supreme Court cases that have shaped this area of law.
Speaker 2From Vinson all the way to Bostock.
Speaker 1Yeah, and we went over some of the key concepts like severe or pervasive, the reasonable person's standard and what employers are responsible for.
Speaker 2And don't forget about the practical stuff too.
Speaker 1Right Like document everything. Know your company's policies for reporting harassment and know that there are external resources like the EEOC.
Speaker 2Exactly, there's help out there if you need it.
Speaker 1Okay, so now here's something for you to think about as you go about your day.
Speaker 2Okay, I'm ready.
Speaker 1How is the changing nature of work like, with more remote work and more focus on diversity? How is that going to affect hostile work environments in the future?
Speaker 2Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 1Right Like. What new challenges are we going to face when it comes to defining and addressing harassment in these new contexts?
Speaker 2Something we all need to be thinking about.
Speaker 1Absolutely, because this is an area of law that's not going away anytime soon, and understanding the basics is crucial for everyone.
Speaker 2I agree.
Speaker 1All right. Well, thanks for taking this deep dive with us. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1Anytime.
Speaker 2See you later.