Employee Survival Guide®
The Employee Survival Guide® is an employees only podcast about everything related to work and working. We will share with you all the information your employer does not want you to know about working and guide you through various work and employment law issues.
The Employee Survival Guide® podcast is hosted by seasoned Employment Law Attorney Mark Carey, who has only practiced in the area of Employment Law for the past 28 years. Mark has seen just about every type of work dispute there is and has filed several hundred work related lawsuits in state and federal courts around the country, including class action suits. He has a no frills and blunt approach to work issues faced by millions of workers nationwide. Mark endeavors to provide both sides to each and every issue discussed on the podcast so you can make an informed decision.
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Employee Survival Guide®
Hatzel & Buehler Age Discrimination Settlement with EEOC
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This episode is part of my initiative to provide access to important court decisions impacting employees in an easy to understand conversational format using AI. The speakers in the episode are AI generated and frankly sound great to listen to. Enjoy!
In this episode, we dive deep into the troubling case of age discrimination at Hatzell Bueller, led by an analysis of two job applicants, Dean Weintraub and Thomas Silvera. Despite their qualifications—Weintraub at 65 with over three decades of experience and Silvera at 58 with notable prior engagement with the company—both were met with questionable hiring practices that underscore the issue of age bias prevalent in today's job market.
From explicit remarks about being "too old" to subtle digs in interviews, this episode uncovers how age can unjustly hinder career opportunities. We engage with the findings of the EEOC's complaint, the defense of Hatzell Bueller, and explore the implications of the settled case that includes significant measures for change albeit without admission of guilt.
Listeners will learn about red flags to look for in hiring practices, patterns indicative of systemic age bias, and the discussion on how this bias impacts not just individuals but the economy at large. This introspective conversation addresses the critical cultural shift needed in recognizing the value of experience, fostering an inclusive workplace for all ages, and understanding actionable steps to challenge age-related discrimination.
On July 19, 2024, the EEOC entered into a consent decree with the employer to settle the case for $500,000. Clearly the company did something wrong and wanted to avoid a protracted litigation and a higher judgment by the court or a jury.
Join the conversation today, and let’s work together to create a culture in which everyone, regardless of age, feels valued and respected in their professional journey. Subscribe, share, and leave a review to support the movement against workplace discrimination!
Show Notes:
EEOC Press Release Announcing $500,000 Settlement
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Disclaimer: For educational use only, not intended to be legal advice.
Welcome back everyone. Today we're going to be taking a deep dive into a legal case about age discrimination at Hatzell Bueller, a commercial electrical contractor.
Speaker 2:Ooh, that sounds juicy.
Speaker 1:It is. It's pretty fascinating. We've got a press release from the EEOC announcing a settlement and the original complaint that they filed.
Speaker 2:Oh, so we get the official word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we also have Hatzell Bueller's response to the complaint, so we can hear both sides of the story. I'm really curious to see what this case tells us about age discrimination in hiring overall. You know beyond just the specifics of this one case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, how common is this kind of thing really, and what can people do if they think they're being discriminated against because of their age?
Speaker 1:Exactly. So let's jump in. The case focuses on Hadsall and Buehler's New Jersey branch, where Wes Hallow Jr was the VP and branch manager.
Speaker 2:And just to clarify, hadsall and Buehler is a commercial electrical contractor right.
Speaker 1:Right. They do electrical work for commercial buildings. So the alleged discrimination happened while they were hiring for project manager and estimator positions. One of the people who applied was Dean Weintraub. He was 65 at the time and had more than 32 years of experience Super qualified.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, on paper it sounds like he'd be a perfect fit.
Speaker 1:Right, but according to the EEOC's complaint, when a recruiter reached out to Weintraub about the job, howell told the recruiter that Weintraub was too old.
Speaker 2:Too old. Huh, that's pretty blatant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he even said that Weintraub was outside of their ideal age range, which was supposedly 30 to 45.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, so they had like a specific number in mind.
Speaker 1:It seems that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it makes you wonder about the recruiter's role in all of this, too, like are they just following orders, or should they be pushing back against these kinds of requests?
Speaker 2:That's a really good point. I mean, how much power do recruiters really have in those situations?
Speaker 1:It's a tough spot for them to be in, for sure, and it gets even more complicated when you consider another applicant, thomas Silvera. He was 58, with over 12 years of experience.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing he had actually been offered a job at Hassel and Bueller before.
Speaker 2:Really Under different management, though I'm guessing.
Speaker 1:You got it, so it seems like something definitely changed with this new manager.
Speaker 2:That's a big red flag, so what?
Speaker 1:happened with Silvera this time around? Well, according to the complaint, Howell sent an email to another employee and was speculating about Silvera's age based on his resume.
Speaker 2:Just from his resume. That's pretty presumptuous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then during Silvera's age. Based on his resume Just from his resume, that's pretty presumptuous yeah, and then during Silvera's interview he was asked about his retirement plans.
Speaker 2:Hmm, that's often a sign that age is a factor in their decision making. Definitely.
Speaker 1:And to make things even fishier, Howell gave different explanations for why Silvera was rejected. He told the recruiter that Silvera's clothing wasn't presentable.
Speaker 2:Oh wow Really.
Speaker 1:But then he told the EEOC that Sylvera didn't have the right experience.
Speaker 2:So like which one was it? It seems like he was just making stuff up.
Speaker 1:Right, very suspicious. So that's the EEOC side of the story. Now let's hear what Hatzell and Buehler had to say in their defense.
Speaker 2:OK, so how did they respond to all of this?
Speaker 1:Well, unsurprisingly, in their response to the complaint, they denied all the allegations of age discrimination. No surprise there. Their main argument was that the EEOC hadn't properly followed what's called the conciliation process.
Speaker 2:I'm not a lawyer. What does that even mean?
Speaker 1:Basically, it's a step where the EEOC tries to help both sides reach a settlement before going to court.
Speaker 2:Oh, so like a mediation kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Exactly. It's a way to resolve things more informally and save everyone time and money.
Speaker 2:So Hatzell and Buehler was saying that the EEOC didn't try hard enough to settle things before filing the complaint.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's a pretty common legal tactic, but you know it doesn't actually address whether discrimination happened or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's more of a technicality. It doesn't really get to the heart of the matter.
Speaker 1:Besides that technicality, they also said that any actions they took were based on legitimate, non-discriminatory reasons. Right, so they're saying there were other reasons why they didn't hire these guys Exactly. But here's the interesting part Even though they denied the allegations, they still agreed to a settlement with the EEOC.
Speaker 2:Interesting, so how much did they end up paying?
Speaker 1:They paid $500,000 without admitting any liability, of course.
Speaker 2:Half a million dollars. That's not nothing. It makes you wonder if they were worried about losing the case.
Speaker 1:It definitely raises some eyebrows. And it wasn't just about the money. The settlement also included what's called equitable relief.
Speaker 2:Equitable relief. What's that?
Speaker 1:So it's basically about making things right beyond just financial compensation.
Speaker 2:So like preventing future discrimination.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and in this case the equitable relief was pretty serious. Wes Howell, the branch manager, was barred from making any final hiring decisions for project manager and estimator positions.
Speaker 2:Wow, they basically took away his hiring power. That's a pretty big deal.
Speaker 1:It shows they were taking the allegations seriously, but it also makes you wonder is that enough? Will removing one person really change the company culture, or is there something deeper going on?
Speaker 2:It's a good question. Maybe we'll find out more in the next part of our deep dive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's definitely a lot more to unpack. We'll be back soon to discuss the larger implications of this case and what it tells us about age discrimination in the workplace as a whole.
Speaker 2:I think this case is a good example of how age discrimination is still a problem, even though we have laws to protect workers.
Speaker 1:It's kind of sad, right, like you'd think experience would be more valuable these days. So how does this bias usually show up in hiring?
Speaker 2:Well, like we saw with Dean Weintraub, sometimes it's really obvious. They just straight up tell you you're too old, ouch. But a lot of times it's way more subtle. They'll use code words like talking about cultural fit or wanting someone with fresh perspectives. You know just ways to get around saying they want someone younger.
Speaker 1:It's like they're trying to be polite about it, but the message is still clear.
Speaker 2:Right, and it can be really hard to prove that's what's happening.
Speaker 1:So what can you do, Like? How do you actually prove that they're discriminated against you because of your age?
Speaker 2:It's tough, but you can look for patterns, like if a company always seems to choose younger people, even when older candidates have similar skills and experience. That could be a sign.
Speaker 1:So it's not just about one individual case, it's about the overall trend.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you got to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 1:This settlement with Hatzell and Buehler included all those extra requirements like anti-discrimination policies and training and reporting to the EEOC. Do you think that stuff actually makes a difference?
Speaker 2:I mean it can, but it really depends on if they actually follow through. A policy is just words on paper if nobody takes it seriously.
Speaker 1:So it's got to be more than just checking boxes.
Speaker 2:For sure. The training needs to be more than just a one-time thing, and it needs to really make people think about their own biases about age.
Speaker 1:So it's about actually changing the way people think, not just telling them what to say.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Companies need to create a culture where age is just a number, not a deal breaker. They need to value the experience and knowledge that older workers bring.
Speaker 1:And maybe be a bit more flexible with work arrangements too right, Because older workers might have different needs.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's about recognizing that everyone has something unique to offer, regardless of their age.
Speaker 1:It seems like a lot of companies are missing out by not taking advantage of that talent pool. What are some of the bigger impacts of age discrimination, though, like for individuals and for society as a whole?
Speaker 2:Well for the person being discriminated against, it can be really tough. It can cause financial problems, lower self-esteem and even health issues Awful and it can also force people to delay retirement, which isn't fair to them, and it also makes it harder for younger people to get jobs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like a chain reaction.
Speaker 2:And for society as a whole. Age discrimination is just a huge waste of potential. We're living longer and healthier lives, but we're not using the skills and experience of older workers.
Speaker 1:Which doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2:Right, it hurts everyone in the long run.
Speaker 1:So what can we do about it? Yeah, I mean, we already have laws, but it's obviously not enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the laws are a good start, but we need to do more. We need to make sure those laws are actually being enforced, and that the EEOC has the resources to investigate these cases, hold companies accountable Exactly, and we need to raise awareness about this issue. Both employers and workers need to understand what age discrimination is and how to recognize it.
Speaker 1:So people need to know their rights and feel comfortable speaking up if something's not right it.
Speaker 2:So people need to know their rights and feel comfortable speaking up if something's not right Absolutely, and we need to encourage companies to create workplaces where people of all ages can thrive you know, promoting mentorship programs and things like that.
Speaker 1:So basically, creating a culture where everyone feels valued and respected, no matter how old they are. Exactly that's the goal.
Speaker 2:This case also made me think about the role of recruiters. What can they do to make sure they're not contributing to the problem?
Speaker 1:Recruiters have a lot of power. They need to be aware of their own biases and make sure they're not screening out older candidates just because of their age. They should be actively looking for diverse candidates, including older workers.
Speaker 2:So it's about being proactive and making a conscious effort to be inclusive.
Speaker 1:Right, it's about recognizing that talent comes in all ages.
Speaker 2:This has been really eye-opening. I think a lot of people don't even realize how common age discrimination is.
Speaker 1:It's often a hidden problem, but it has real consequences and by talking about it and raising awareness we can start to change things.
Speaker 2:I agree it's time to start having these conversations and holding each other accountable.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. What can our listeners do if they think they might be experiencing age discrimination in their own job searches?
Speaker 2:First thing is document everything, keep track of any interactions, emails, job postings, anything that might be useful as evidence.
Speaker 1:So write it all down.
Speaker 2:And, if you feel comfortable, you can try talking to the employer or recruiter directly about your concerns.
Speaker 1:So don't be afraid to speak up.
Speaker 2:And if you feel like you've been discriminated against, you can file a complaint with the EEOC. There are also organizations that can help you understand your rights and provide legal support.
Speaker 1:So know that you're not alone and there are resources available to help.
Speaker 2:That's right, you have options.
Speaker 1:This has been a really insightful discussion. I think it's made me a lot more aware of this issue. What are some final takeaways you'd like to leave our listeners with today?
Speaker 2:I think one of the biggest things to remember is that age discrimination doesn't just happen during the hiring process. Yeah, that's true. It can pop up at any point in your career, Right like with promotions or training opportunities or even just how you're treated day to day.
Speaker 1:It's like sometimes people just assume that older workers aren't as capable or as interested in learning new things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and those stereotypes can be really damaging. It can make people feel like they're being pushed out or overlooked just because of their age.
Speaker 1:This whole deep dive has really got me thinking about how I can be more aware of those biases, not just in my own head, but also like in how I interact with people at work.
Speaker 2:I think that's so important. We all have these unconscious biases that we might not even realize, and the first step is just acknowledging that they exist.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then we can start to question those assumptions Like why do I think this person isn't right for the job, or why am I not giving them this opportunity?
Speaker 2:Right, and it's not always easy to confront those biases, but it's important to try. We need to be willing to challenge ourselves and each other.
Speaker 1:And this case also made me think about how important it is to have a good company culture. It's not enough to just have policies on paper. You need to create an environment where everyone feels valued and respected, regardless of their age.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. A truly inclusive workplace recognizes that everyone has something unique to offer and that diversity of experience and perspectives makes a company stronger.
Speaker 1:So I guess the big question is how do we actually get there, how do we create that kind of culture shift?
Speaker 2:It takes a lot of work and it's not something that happens overnight, but I think the first step is just starting the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like talking about these issues, making sure people are aware of them.
Speaker 2:And then it's about taking action. Leaders need to set the tone and create a space where people feel safe sticking up about these things, and everyone needs to be willing to challenge their own biases and call out discrimination when they see it.
Speaker 1:It sounds like it's going to take a lot of effort from everyone involved.
Speaker 2:It will, but I think it's worth it. Creating a more equitable and inclusive workplace benefits everyone.
Speaker 1:I completely agree. We all deserve to feel valued and respected at work Exactly Well. This has been an incredible deep dive. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today. I think we've all learned a lot.
Speaker 2:It's been my pleasure. These are important conversations to have.
Speaker 1:And to our listeners. Thank you for joining us on this deep dive into age discrimination. We hope it's given you some things to think about.
Speaker 2:And we encourage you to keep learning, keep questioning and keep pushing for a better world.
Speaker 1:That's a great note to end on. Until next time.